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How is the vent airflow?I would jumper the aux fan & check the performance. One of the differences between auto air conditioners that have been redesigned from R12 to R134a is that the condensers have gone from serpentine to pseudo-parallel. You either get a system that will function well with R1234yf or get any other type. I would not do a 134a conversion without a PF condensor. ThanksPaul -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. Or is there always room for improvement, the more the merrier. I am ordering new parts, and planning to convert my system to R-134a. The aux fan didn't switch on though and I didn't check the high side temperature. The mechanical fan & clutch should be checked as well. 1) Look Here at the available sizes of PF condensors.2) Go look at your vehicle's condensor & mounting. However, it was found to be a very bad gas for the environment. I'm curiousSo there is work to do, ie performance should be able to be improved. This chart has a column of ambient (outside) air temperatures on one side and a corresponding range of high side pressures on the other side. You do not however need to replace all the o-rings or seals for a simple conversion, it is simply a logical thing to do when and if the time comes to work or replace certain components because of age issues. 4 Stars & Up & Up; 3 Stars & Up & Up; 2 Stars & Up . $21 . Also, it can be used with all types of compressors. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve Kommentare . Theres no doubt that R12 refrigerant is one of the first compounds manufactured for the air conditioning and refrigeration world, but it had to be banned. Should I do the test again with the the aux fan jumpered? I have just bought gauges. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valvewarning signs for a deteriorating patient with covid 19 infection 2022.07.03 18:36 18:36 Jun 17, 2011. Answer: OK, I'll bite. Is checking the temperature of the in and out of the condensor not the easiest way to tell if it is doing a good job or not? Paul:A 1983 240D should have a York compressor on an OEM system. There are two hoses listed, R-12 64-53-1-377-821 for $72.50, and R-134a 64-53-8-391-051 fro $262.50. Once you have replaced the OEM condensor with a PF unit, you will need to make custom hoses to mate with your OEM system. Paul -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. Unfortunately, the R12 refrigerant doesnt always blow cold air. A thermostatic expansion valve (TXV) (see Figure 1) is a refrigeration and air conditioning throttling device that controls the amount of refrigerant liquid injected into a system's evaporatorbased on the evaporator outlet temperature and pressurecalled the superheat. That way I will have reduced the oil by about 1/3 (assuming the oil is mixed evenly through the system). R-12 is no longer used or produced in many countries and remaining quantities have skyrocketed in price. R12 was once used in many air conditioning units as a refrigerant or cooling agent. leading to corrosion of expansion valves, capillary tube plugging, and compressor bearing . difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve Some say that a chemical reaction can harm the A/C very badly as R134a reacts with mineral oil in some way. I've done the FSM test and with 81F ambient, the vent should be 50F. What effect would it have on performance, if any?At the moment, the ac is acting up - will work fine for about 15 minutes and then slowly the vent temperatures rise until the compressor switches off. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." Next I'll jumper the aux fan. R134a is called tetrafluoroethane (HFC). difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve A. Pressure/temperature plot of R134a vs. R12 is shown in figure 1. I'm thinking I might have put too much oil in the system - everywhere i read had a different amount - the manufacturer of the compressor, the MB factory service manual, online forums. One of the differences between auto air conditioners that have been redesigned from R12 to R134a is that the condensers have gone from serpentine to pseudo-parallel. It is also used in automotive car conditioning and the plastic industry. The best oil that runs well with R134a is PAG oil or Polyalkylene Glycol. Whenever its exposed to the environment, it changes to a gas. For instance at 25 F the pressure of R-12 is 24.6 PSI and the pressure of R-134a is 22.1 PSI. #19. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. Remember, being aluminum, they lower the temps better, and do not pass off as much heat to the radiator, which then makes it's job easier and lowers underhood temps (besides lowering vent temps inside the car). If the system was upgraded by a professional it should have an upgrade sticker. Performance doesn't seem to have improved. RULES for AOP - Owner Assistance and Contractors, Energy Efficiency and Building Performance Discussion NEW, Carnak Zone/Locked Areas - For Professional Member Only, How To Become a Pro and Rules For Pro Members, Pro Forum: Refrigerants and EPA regulations **NEW, Pro Forum: Residential Refrigeration and Appliances **NEW, Pro Forum: Equipment Recalls and Bulletins **NEW, Pro's Forum: Building Science Discussions, Educational Forums - Open for all in the industry, Welcome to HVAC-Talk's Educational Forums, How to Submit Links, Articles and Quiz Questions, Frequently Asked Questions About Submissions, Physics, Thermodynamics, Fluid Flow and Combustion, Educational, Training & Reference Information, Manufacturer's Technical Information Links, Electrical Theory, Circuits and Electronics, HVACR Equipment, Components & Accessories, Accessories Humidifiers, Air Cleaners, HRUs, Fans, Filters, etc. If your car does not have a high pressure cut-out switch in the AC system then youll need to have one installed (call us if you need help). Most vehicles manufactured before 1993 have the R12 A/C system. When the sensor detects the refrigerant leak the sniffers lights glow and the sniffer makes a noise. Further production of R12 was banned in some developed countries by the Montreal Protocol because of its harsh effect on the ozone layer. The best replacement for R134a is R1234yf, while R12 refrigerant replacement was R134a. Since you will be using less R134a than R12 you do not want to rely on the driers site glass to determine if the system is full. The typical scenario here is when the car owner buys an inexpensive retro-fit kit from the local auto parts store. About four or five years ago, I guy with an MB came here with the same problem, that tread was over six pages long. A good T/C, clamped to the line & insulated gives a repeatable measurement of the tube. evarporator, expansion valve plus flushing out the full system and replacing all the o rings. A capacity curve is shown in figure 2 for relative capacity of R134a vs. R12 for evaporating temperatures from 0F to 50F. american sniper longest shot; how to adjust sunsetter awning arms; pastor jeremy roberts texas. A lower GWP alternative to R-134a had to be found and thus we have the new 1234yf. The crossover point is approximately at 64F. I'm having the same concern. It has already been clearly stated that R12 is a chemical that damages the earths ozone layer and shouldnt be released into the environment no matter the circumstance. For example, if your system originally had 36 ounces of R12 then you multiply that by .80 and you have 29 ounce of R134a. Flush with a garden hose - do not use a high pressure washer - you can bend the fins flat & damage the condensor.B. R404a for freezing of product. Osuagwu Solomon is a certified mechanic with over a decade of experience in the mechanic garage, and he has over five years of experience in the writing industry. This kit comes complete with Expansion valve, o-ring kit, and 1ft. So if you car has a large amount of rubber hose, such as a 40 feet with the 911, then you will be re-charging the system often and that is expensive no matter which refrigerant you use. With R-12, 30 is 28.4psi and 40 is 36.9psi, for a difference of 8.5psi. To bless the system the technician should attach a R134a sticker somewhere in the engine compartment to note the car is using R134a. 4) Inconsistent Airflow. Crap! . Yep, definately not a meat locker. Welcome to rxmechanic.com. We consider the the various types alternative refrigerants that are illegal or not approved to be in two sectors: non-flammables and flammables. Then again, there are two different expansion valves. Safe but sorry! El maig de 2016, un grup damics van crear un lloc web deOne Piece amb lobjectiu doferir la srie doblada en catal de forma gratuta i crear una comunitat que inclogus informaci, notcies i ms. In practice this means that the car can overheat and the aux fan will stay off! Therefore, the R12 refrigerant is illegal, and emitting it is illegal. Post photos, respond to polls and access other special features. If you have the work done, be sure you find a true "A/C" shop that can make up lines. I've straightened the fans I can and sprayed simple green on it, let it soak then hosed it down well. If the charge is low the compressor will cycle on/off in the max AC position. |. Paul:It is never a waste of my time to chat with someone that understands the problem, and wants to fix it. Shorting the plug for the refrigerant switch should run the fan when the compressor is on. Still, I have some simple green, so may as well give it a go. The problem with using an approved alternative refrigerants other than R134a is that when the system is serviced it requires certain types of fittings, labels and dedicated equipment. #4. might be due to charge or different compressor and age. R12 is used in several applications like low temperature, medium temperature, and high-temperature applications. . The expansion valve is designed so that the temperature of the refrigerant at the evaporator outlet must have 8 to 12F (4 to 7C) of superheat before more refrigerant is allowed to enter the evaporator. Replied by Rich928 on topic R12 or R134a. Also, R134a cylinders are light-blue in color. The sticker typically has a place to note the amount of refrigerant used, the type of oil and amount of oil, the technicians sign off or name and the date of the conversion. For example, at an evap temp of 30 (your daughter's system is probably running around 25-28 saturated in order to give a 32 duct temp), the pressure of R-134a is 26.1psi. Thread starter goldNSX; Start date 1 August 2009; Tagged . We mention using ester type refrigerant oil. Like say half a can or so recharge come springtime warm weather or something. Expansion Valve. _____ 2012 E350 2006 Callaway SC560 . And by matching the correct amount of R134a to use in a given vehicle, correcting the superheat of the expansion valve (if necessary), you can in some manner nearly balance or match the amount of heat drawn out by the evaporator and released by the condenser. The cure is to use the newer R134a compressors is sealing washers that are different thickness. Super heats are so close, it should not be a major concern.-------------------------The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. So the steps involved are cleaning out the old oil, replacing all the O-rings, replacing the dryer, replacing the expansion valve, and converting the high and low side connectors from Schrader to quick connect valves. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. Can I use the one for the R-12? Recovery & flushing is the only way out of an oil overcharge in your vehicle.B. In cases such as this, the required capacity value of the expansion valve with R134a is reduced by 30% (correction factor 1.42). That's a lot isn't it? Since there is only about a 10% difference between R-12 and R-134a, the expansion valve being self-compensating really doesn't make that much difference. I put in a new (not reman) compressor (R4 I believe it is) in my merc 240D, new drier, new expansion valve, new o-rings, nylog. You do not need to replace every o-ring in the system, but if you happen to open a connection that has an o-ring you should replace the old o-ring with one that is compatible with R134a and lubricate the o-ring with ac oil. At the time I thought nothing of it, but now I am thinking maybe that is contributing to the system not working as well as it could. After the system has been tested out it should be checked for leaks. The difference really shows up on the high side. Also, would a genuine R12 TXV be better, or is it too marginal to worry about?I think I should do the FSM test for performance - they have a graph with ambient temp and a/c temp. Inhalation of vapor: Inhaling a large amount of R134a vapor can lead to drowsiness, temporary nervous system depression, and lethargy. Are r12 and r134 fittings different? The exact amount will vary with each car. Besides, R134a refrigerant was manufactured after R12 was banned to help reduce the harshness of the old chemical (R12) on the ozone layer. by | Jun 21, 2022 | what is the most accurate latin translator | burlington iowa arrests | Jun 21, 2022 | what is the most accurate latin translator | burlington iowa arrests Big . It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. R134a refrigerant is about 10% less efficient in moving heat than R12! By after changing just about everything, he got what was termed, satisfactory cooling.