The BADA Ref is a great DAC and I understand the new version takes it to even another level. With the MSB there has been a great deal of attention paid to ensuring the signal stays as pure as possible and is not affected by other parts of the DAC or outside sources; modular construction, dual power supplies, isolation of USB etc. You must log in or register to reply here. Ill go through the modules included in the Discrete DAC and explain a little about each. Still, it's the way I prefer at this stage. Hmm.. 1 - MSB Discrete 2 - dCS Bartok 3 - Mola Mola Tambaqui 4 - Chord DAVE (add the M Scaler later) 5 - Keep my Ayre QX-5 Twenty, do nothing Thanks! I've had many world class DACS in my studio over the years and the Crane Song is as good as any no matter the cost. But the majority of the time all 6 of With a better matched preamp presence may be acceptable. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. The Discrete DAC, The Premier DAC, The Reference DAC, The Select DAC II, Theater Master. Rori Look, says I theres obviously a fault with this unit as its lighting up, I can see it on the network and I can send tunes to it via the Stack streamer and Roon! We went through everything and I was getting ready to pack it up and send it back when I reached around the back of one of the PSUs and switched it on MUSIC!!! There is no dark magic involved. it just complimented my system better than those other two. Any specific reason you wanna replace the Dave? Snookered into the Chord Electronics Hugo TT2? - A Review I wish you would have had the Totaldac D1 Seven to try. I'm looking for suggestions between $10K - $12K. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/a-dac-that-crushes-price-vs-performance-ratio. We used PCM (16/44,1 to 24/192) and DSD 64 and 128 for the comparioson. And yes, you can improve it more by adding nice power source and cable. With the Bartok now quite a few $$$ more, the Tambaqui represents a fantastic price v performance ratio that would be at home in most highly resolving systems. This is purely speculation based on browsing the internet over the years and internalising pro/con reviews from users. Best DACs comparison test result [[My Subjective Opinion]] Strangely, this new review is not displayed when you select the review folder on the homepage. I suppose that the vast majority of people who listen for pleasure at home are looking for a balance between the two, and whilst I still maintain we are most likely to hear the biggest effect in a system by changing transducers, every element in the chain of sound will affect the final sound and, in a digital system, I think the DAC you choose can have a huge effect on the final sound. Over the air updates will ensure that your renderer always has the latest capabilities and ultimate convenience. It will kick your ass. The Merriam-Webster online dictionary tells me that the definition of high-fidelity (HiFi) is the reproduction of an effect (such as sound or an image) that is very faithful to the original and it would seem to be reasonable to assume that this is the goal of audiophiles around the world. Along with an integrated clock, changing this card allows switching between single-ended and balanced outputs. @ricred1, I would like to suggest you take a look at the Mola Mola Tambaqui when it arrives later this month I understand. Since opening our doors in 1986, weve been driven by one goal: to craft an unrivaled listening experience for music lovers across the globe. as my Select II sits it would list for $116,450. As a matter of fact, I'd appreciate getting your impressions. The Prime DAC Module. Up to 1km lossless transmission. Mike, Scott has been absolutely wonderful in his support, despite my purchasing the Found-Music 2A3s used (from Art S.) He has visited once and is planning another visit after the trip your way. However, there are two inputs for external PSUs and a little doodad/adapter that allows the use of one external PSU. But in the specific case of the BADA and PM2, if you wish for me to be more precise, then taking into account that I only had the BADA ref for a very short time, the bottom line was that I didn't feel at the time that the difference between the PM2 in my system was significant enough to make it worth the energy to change components or the potential financial loss involved in a trade. Some very good advice here. Some silly sausage plugged a white power cable into a black device. retail client forgets that most audio stores and audio distribution companies If I want to build a complicated system, I won't consider DAVE because for the position of DAC, I can choose from other brands (Totaldac, NADAC, Rockna, Prismsound 8XR etc) at the same price. Like the rest of the DACs in the MSB range, the Select DAC is modular in its architecture with each of the modules being produced in house, as outlined above. DAVE is perfect for headphone system because you can save space and money of headphone amplifier. I listen mostly to classical music, particularly with symphonic work, I prefer DAVE to MSB. We are For the most part, I used this input and for a quick comparison one of the optical inputs. There are separate optimal PCM and DSD modes for playbacks and bit perfect playback is how DAVE performs optimally as the FPGA up samples and noise shapes everything to 104MHz 5-bit. The Discrete DAC Features - MSB Technology The Discrete DAC Refined sound. its that good. About Chord Vs Dac Discrete Msb Dave . There are some tonal differences too, but what you prefer will depend on your other equipment and the music you like. This is disabled if you are outputting to a preamplifier. The LED display, slaved to the audio clock, is refreshed between data processing to drastically reduce electrical interference. Focusing on our network renderer and USB input, your audio tech will be on the cutting edge. At MSB, we believe excellence is a promise worth keeping. Wavedream only has a couple hours on it, but from the first note it Thanks for the interesting reply, cmarin. Our publication is supported by its audience. @smodtactical I would not take price as any arbitrator of quality, especially nowadays. Id imagine that upscaling refers to increasing bit-depth (like from 16 to 24 bits) which adds "vertical" resolution to the waveform in theory, improving amplitude resolution making subtle low-level detail more natural and audible (among other things) if done correctly. Superior conversion begins with clean and stable low-noise power. The only other items in the chain were the Stack streamer and a pretty well-sorted network setup. Pass Labs INT-60. You are using an out of date browser. but with digital things change quickly, and a month ago I got a new server, the SGM Extreme. Didn't like it at all. The in-house discrete design is then constructed into its own shielded CNC pocket for optimal isolation. and as I said earlier there is no "best" when it comes to dacs or I have personally not observed this - with either the DAVE or my Mojo. As the noise in my system keeps getting lower, the PM2 keeps reaching deeper to find even more musical engagement and purity in standard 16/44 files. You must log in or register to reply here. The clock can be seen as being the heart of the DAC and once again the clocks are made in-house. Tellurium Silver Diamond USB and Chord Blu. Moving away from the actual sound of the music, one of my main takeaways from listening to the Discrete was the sense of timing it brought to music. Once populated, the circuit boards are made into modules and then placed inside the casework. This very pleasant sound I was experiencing, it could be argued, was to a large degree down to the choice of amplifier and what that added to the mix, and I do think this is a valid argument. I hope to also have an opportunity to listen to a T+A DAC8 (for DSD512) and a Chord Dave (DSD256) in my system soon (with HQPlayer). And I make Best DAC Quality Ranking list. Can I ask how you procured all those DACs? When I have done the comparison with other DACs I have had at the same time - Ayre QX5-Twenty, EAR Dac 4, exasound e32 - often the immediate impression is that DAVE/Blu 2 is not quite as good - a bit dryer sounding, not quite as smooth, not as airy or three dimensional And yet, over the longer term, it is deeply satisfying at a musical level in a way that the other DACs are not. What I do know is that the MSB brings an excellent level of performance by way of neutrality to a system that allows other parts of the system to do their thing its sort of the digital equivalent of a very (very) good cartridge. However, Id argue that there is sort of two trains of thought on this subject; one where theres absolute fidelity to the source material at all costs, and another that sounds great though to the listener but perhaps not absolutely true to the original source and I dont think its unfair to say that both these positions have their place in the world of playing tunes at home. The main reason we took on Rockna was because their Stainless steel buttons arrayed around an elegant volume wheel to optimize performance and response. For sure with Hugo and Qutenot even debatable. That statement makes sense in an analog paradigm. It's UPDATE VIDEO THREE for the Chord Electronics DAVE DAC REVIEW I have spent a lot more time with the DAVE Dac, still using. Others might disagree but these are my findings. Cs | Critical Mass CS2s -> components, Isoacoustics -> speakers + subs | Adona Eris II rack on Herbie's titanium footers | Fully treated and dedicated 2 channel room. The Pro USB is offered as a stand alone module for users who already have an MSB DAC that is equipped with a Pro ISL input as well as a starter kit with a Pro ISL input and everything you need to get up and running. They both use FPGA for their decoding. Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile. Jon Hopkins Music For Psychedelic Therapy was a beautifully enveloping experience, made all the more so as sounds come and go in the soundstage in a somewhat more solid way than without the usual DAC. Sonically, it is akin to the old straight wire with gain only in the digital realm. I'm super happy with my Esoteric N-01, which is a noticeable step up in quality/musicality from the DAVE - as yes the DAVE sounds a bit "thin" (though extraordinarily detailed). Who knows ?! The video cannot be shown. Dealer's should be required to state they're a dealer every time they post or have a disclaimer in their username. Can't beat the form factor of it though, great for off a desk top. dac at a reasonable price. Were constantly improving digital input modules to stay at the forefront of the high-end audio industry, ensuring youre always equipped with the most current digital file formats and interfaces. Both DACs connected directly to power amp using each DACs volume controle. It is not hard to audition these DACs in Melbourneand this is your best way to work out your own preference. Triangle Magellan Concerto 2< AQEverest< Vitus Audio SS-010 Mk2< AQDragon High Current< AQWELXLR< ChordQutestDAC w UpTone JS-2 & AQ Dragon Source < AQDiamond USB< InnuosPhoenix USBwAQ Dragon Source< AurenderN100H & AQ Dragon Source< NetGear GS105GESwitch w UpTone LPS1.2< Supra CAT8 Ethernet msb discrete dac vs chord dave - 1click3d.com An FPGA does not have analog output, in the Chord DACs, VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623, : SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels, http://igg.me/at/geekpulseaudio/x/5216671. To each their own, but I think Chord sounds cold and artificial. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $14,000. Actually the ChordHugo M Scaler and the Blu Mk. MSB Technology Discrete Modular DAC Page 2 | Hi-Fi News A Chord DAC converts to analog via Chord's "Pulse Array DAC" which is a discrete circuit, similar to the discrete circuit used in the MSB DACs (but not the same). 2. I don't want to waste hifi shops time too much knowing I'll be going second hand either. Stuart Smith finds out. Its a clever thing meaning that their products are repairable and upgradeable for example, you can have a card that is set up for single-ended outputs or balanced XLR outputs (for review we have the balanced version). Well this is going to set the cat amongst the pigeons for sure. Sablon Audio King/Prince power cords throughout. The MSB simply offered more of everything and to my ears proved again that a true multi bit converter/ladder DAC is superior to delta/sigma or FPGA DACs. The AC modules are fully balanced at every stage, have no buffers, IV converters, or transistors in the signal path, and have no active devices used in the conversion process at all. Mind you, I have chipless DSD with 1 bit processing, so the bar is set VERY high for me. Like others said, I'd try first an MScaler with DAVE. And thinking more about it, the differences at the time could have been small because the noise level in my system at the time of the comparison were relatively higher than they are now. I hope you understand. An exploration of Chord DAVE, MScaler, Qutest, and Holo May, HQPlayer the Select II pushes the analog to be its best. Of course this DAC is super pricey and out of the reach of many (including me). As a contented Qutest user, I would have hoped for "improved", performance from the Dave. It is not hard to audition these DACs in Melbourneand this is your best way to work out your own preference. Up to 8X DSD One of the things I jotted down in my notes during this time was the sense of scale the Discrete brought to the music I was listening to big music sounded BIG and more intimate recordings had their own scale too. The output modules are where the converted digital signals are output to analogue signals that our amplifiers can make use of and MSB make two flavours of the output module. I don't understand why Chord DACs have to be so damn ugly! Yes, you read that right, the Select DAC is the best part of 121,000! definitely up there with the best dacs in the world. Always use!! I called the distributor and we went through everything again. CH Precision mono dac with clock and 3 power supplies (7 boxes)----its more spendy---$150k, Merging Technologies NADAC w/power supply and clock---much better now with the clock and power supply upgrades than my previous experience.----around $60k. I also looked at the MSB Discrete DAC but everything thing was an extra cost option (USB, AES/EBU, power supply, etc.,) and expensive. I believe it comes down to Toggle signature. I believe it comes down to Never say never, but I reckon 99.9% of folk would get to the Discretes level of performance and not be able to justify another 110K to achieve, what I am guessing would be marginal gains though I have not experienced the Select and so cannot say for sure that this would be the case and it may be a total revelation is sonic engineering. Like x 5 List ), Chord Hugo 2 Review (Portable DAC & HP Amp), DAC Noise Modulation: Chord DAVE vs Topping DX7 Pro+, Digital To Analog (DAC) Reviews and Discussion, Amplifiers, Phono preamp, and Analog Audio Review. Still would like to listen to the Soulution 760 DAC, Mola Mola DAC, Trinity DAC, MSB Select DAC, and maybe the Light Harmonic Da Vinci DAC, Gryphon Kalliope DAC, TotalDAC of some kind, Phasure NOS1A DAC, Esoteric Grandioso DAC, TAD DA1000 DAC, Audionet DAC, Chord Dave DAC . Looking forward to the your additions to the list. Audiogon Discussion Forum Everyone hears differentlyI heard the Dave with the Blu and I prefer it without it. Or arm yourself with a nice bottle of red and pay a visit to@Stereophilus. Regular readers will appreciate all that is taken from the MSB website and I make no apologies for not really understanding the electronics. There are a lot of people that absolutely love the M-scaler. Astrostar here, said it completely blew away any dac he had before, and mind you, he has the entry level AC model. Actual auditioning of the unit prior to purchase is paramount. You'd expect Audiosanctuary to understand what a gutless amp sounds like, and at least put a headphone amp in front of that DAVE, if they wanted to sell people either the DAVE or the headphones. DAVE stands for 'Digital to Analogue Veritas in Extremis', a moniker that best reflects the product's . To build a simple and good system). Thanks. Anyway, the MSB Discrete is a machine that I consider to be highly resolving and a true HiFi product with regard to the definition I quoted above. It's easy! Great Dac but for me a NOS DAC (Metrum Adagio) won the contest over all the others Dacs I have tried so far. However, to get this level of separation and detail within the soundscape the DAC is clearly having a very important role to play. MSB Technology Premier Digital-to-Analog Converter Its headphone amplifier is good but no match for higher powered units. The MSB simply sounded more real to my ears and offered a more convincing soundstage and tonality and all the tiny informations in the music where integrated in the musical flow whereas the DAVE simply sounded flat and not realistic to my ears and even lacked those tiny informations. In my assessment the Makua offered a more open and spacious sound. I have a PS Audio DSD ATM and it is also on the warm side which is good, but I'm thinking I need something more neutral due to my speakers being fairly warm and full bodied in their own right to take my system to the next level. Not a bad idea Snoop! So this was headphones straight out of the DAVE? IMHO an audio recommendation in a forum is just an advice on what is worth listening and the reason why we think so. Many competing DACs will have a more comprehensive display at this price and, more commonly still, an app designed for intuitive access via smartphone and/or tablets. The other thing I've learned about the Chord Dave is it can sound very different depending on the interconnect and/or power cord used. Chord states "DAVE is the most advanced DAC we have ever made. It matches Chord Dave and Mscaler on dynamics with slightly more bass slam. Thanks. So true jr, the discrete R2R Multibit dacs like the Terminator the Holo, MSB, Total ect ect have a life and a boogie factor to the music that DS dacs lack, and yes they do show up bad recordings. The Discrete DAC, the successor and highly improved replacement to the now-famous Analog DAC is the MSB DAC that everyone has been waiting for. I would have loved if you heard them in the same system for a direct comparison. I was upgrading it in this order and still could not believe every time it sounded better. This gives us lots of headroom for future sample rates and audio formats.. Once complete there are measurements and functional tests before the final products are inspected, cleaned, and packed up ready to be shipped, but not before a white glove inspection by either Jonathan or Daniel. This leaner and cleaner edge has the effect of adding a level of perceived detail to the listening experience. Directstream, Bricasti M1, Jeff Rowland Aeris, Chord Dave, and today I What didn't you like about the Dave? By When a dealer post something you have to take it with a enormous grain of salt. However, there are also products that manage to straddle both sides of the electric fence (whilst being careful not to electrocute their nether regions) and give us a tremendously enjoyable reproduction of a recording whilst remaining true to the source material. Compared to some other similarly priced DACs ($10 - $15k MSRP) I prefer the Discrete with 2 Discrete PS. I can only comment on the Emm labs, if u can get a DA2 I think you will be happy "An audiophile is only done when they go to the great brick and mortar store in the sky" Ron Resnick ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. It's pretty funny how everyone gives their personal pet recommendation with the utmost confidence that the buyer will like it. more might come to mind and I will add them. I do however like the i2S connection better than any other conversation. What else should one expect? Others might disagree but these are my findings. With two prime DACs, we yield an unprecedented level of detail, reproducing the musicality, soundstage, and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you. It would have been a different outcome though with the Cyrus pre-amp I previously owned, which cast a veil over everything. You already have a very top tier DAC. Did I mention the remote is perfect? subjective to a point and that is why we do blind testing and A/B testing with That's just too money for the performance. Watts is avidly not reading this in anticipation of the video version he won't watch. Since the Topping D70s SINAD is ~120 dB and it costs ~$650, then given that "money is power" (as opposed to amplitude), I would expect the Chord DAVE SINAD to be at least 120 + 10*log($14,000 / $650) = 133.3 dB. Cheers @Stereophilus in this forum and they are all very good dacs. @ricred1, youre right to point that out. Yes, definitely, as it is those extra tiny little bits of detail that adds the cherry on top of an already rather splendid slice of musical cake brought out on tracks like the audio show mainstay Keith Dont Go from Acoustic Live by Nils Lofgren. How does it compare? Taiko Audio Extreme > Sablon Audio Reserva Elite USB2022/Sablon Audio Reserva Ethernet2020> Aqua Formula XHDV2 > Sablon Audio King Sablon Interconnects > LDR pre > PuLSar45 DC SE amp > Sablon Audio Reserva speaker cables (pigtailed) > Avantgarde Duo Omega( Duelund xover). You go off people's opinions and hope it'll match your equipment and system when you put the hard earned down. With two prime DACs, the MSB Discrete yields an unprecedented level of detail that reproduces the musicality, soundstage and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you. https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9eh61-lampizator-pacific-da-converters, https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/lampizator-pacific-dac/, https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/subjective-grading-of-dac-that-i-had-heard-during-last-one-year-period. And this is where I had a problem with this DAC, though mostly the problem was of my own making. Audiogon Discussion Forum I know it is a standard talking point by some to suggest that Chord DACs aren't as good with DSD as PCM. Anyway, I switched out the valve power amplifier and put in its place the Krell KST100 (all fully fettled and brought up to a better than new spec by Krell in the States) with my intention being to see what effect was the DAC and what was down to the amp basically isolating the effect to a component. With two prime DACs, we yield an unprecedented level of detail, reproducing the musicality, soundstage, and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you. Put simply, your DAC is ready for the future. Chord Dave Black New The Prime DAC With two prime DACs, MSB yields an unprecedented level of detail, reproducing the musicality, soundstage, and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you Ps Audio Directstream Dac Vs Auralic Vega Founded in 2004, Games for Change is a 501(c)3 nonprofit that empowers game creators and . MSB Discrete DAC - What's Best Forum